The Nature of Desire, the Problem of Meaningless Work, and Ecologies of Attention
The Nature of Desire, the Problem of Meaningless Work, and Ecologies of Attention
My Conversation with John Gillam at the Thinking Class Podcast
Thanks to John Gillam for having me on his podcast, The Thinking Class. It has been a while since I’ve spoken in podcasts, and I enjoyed this one immensely. I’m thinking of doing this more often. So, dear reader, if you are interested in what I write about in this newsletter, I'd love to talk. If you have a podcast, I’d be honored to be your guest. If you don’t have one, I can record it and post it in this newsletter.
Here’s the YouTube video. Below it are links to other places where you can listen to the episode, as well as my timestamped notes.
What we talk about
1:19 John: Introduction: our connection: René Girard via Luke Burgis
1:45 Kahlil: My introduction: "Gentleman Scholar." Work vs Jobs. Work of seeking and speaking truth vs job of entrepreneurship.
4:47 John: fear of speaking truth due to the judgment of people
6:49 Kahlil: the three epistemologies and building the muscle of overcoming the fear of speaking truth
9:58 John: understanding cultures and history
11:33 John: tell us about Girard
11:46 Kahlil: Luke's Wanting unveiled mimetic desire, learning practical virtue ethics in my teens (eg, temperance), entrepreneurship as mimesis, thick desire: my work of independent scholarship. I wanted to know more. How come all cultures have ritual sacrifice? Girard's scapegoat mechanism.
17:26 John: Girard via Roger Scruton, unveiling by Girard.
20:36 Kahlil: The Three-City Problem of Modern Life. The Pathless Path and The Good Enough Job. Finding answers from Athens and Jerusalem.
29:27 John: More on answers from Athens and Jerusalem. Journey from new atheist to back to Jerusalem, a "port city to eternity."
35:11 Kahlil: Explaining prayer to a non-believer.
37:08 John: Ryan Holiday. How do you design life toward thick desires? FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) movement.
39:08 Kahlil: do both: create wealth and master desire. Designing your environment and habits. Be around people whose desires you want to copy. Daily practice.
46:04 John: Matthew Crawford, philosopher-craftsman: ecology of attention.
50:36 Kahlil: the Stallion Rider model
53:45 What book are you reading?
54:01 David Deutsch's The Beginning of Infinity. Connection with Girard: the West.
55:38 John: the Christian roots of liberal ethics and the Enlightenment.
58:59 Kahlil: "The Age of Truth." The future is unwritten.