I recently stumbled upon Sam Chua's work via
's (vrg) newsletter. If you've followed my "Triangulations" series, you'll recognize Rao as one of the thinkers whose ideas I've been engaging with the past years.Based on my first impressions of his writing, I sensed that Sam and I share many interests. So I reached out over WhatsApp. We then shared some of our writing with each other. We thought we should have a call. There are probably only a handful of people in the world with whom I could discuss the figure of the Orang Besar (Southeast Asian Strongman), Cybernetics, and vgr’s Gervais Principle. My instincts were correct.
Here’s the summary of our discussion with timestamps:
2:30 – 10:00 | Discovering Summer of Protocols & Southeast Asian Themes
Sam’s first exposure to Venkatesh Rao: Sam recounts following vgr for over a decade, and how that ultimately led to his involvement in the Summer of Protocols program.
Southeast Asian lens: Sam explains how the region’s decentralized history—especially the concept of datus (Orang Besar) and nusas (islands)—inspired the Datus & Nusas workshop.
10:00 – 15:00 | What Are Protocols? Why Do They Matter?
Coordinating via protocols: Sam outlines how protocols, in both tech and social settings, enable large-scale coordination without central control.
Traffic analogy & beyond: From traffic lights to blockchains, Sam illustrates the power of shared “rules” and minimal frameworks for group behavior.
15:00 – 25:00 | Big Men, Strong Men & the Influence of Power
Orang Besar as a cultural reality: We discuss how “big men” figures shape politics and everyday life across Southeast Asia.
Gervais Principle meets local strongmen: I share how vgr’s satirical yet illuminating model of office politics helped me make sense of Southeast Asian strongman culture in my writing.
25:00 – 35:00 | The SEApunk Vision & Cybernetics
SEApunk origins: Sam recounts coining “SEApunk” as a playful shorthand for a distinctly Southeast Asian ethos that combines maritime heritage, DIY spirit, and decentralized systems.
Cybernetics & steering systems: We link protocols thinking back to classic cybernetic ideas—how communities self-organize, navigate power, and “steer” their futures.
35:00 – 45:00 | Applying the “Big Man” Lens & Exploring Fiction
Bringing the Gervais Principle into Fiction: We discuss how vgr’s Gervais Principle—despite appearing satirical—helped model Southeast Asia’s “big man” figures in a novel about historical strongmen. Drawing parallels between modern office hierarchies and local power dynamics, we consider how the lens of power translates into storytelling.
Suggested Readings on Power: Sam recommends works like The Dictator’s Handbook and Robert Caro’s biographies (including The Power Broker and those on Lyndon B. Johnson) as deeper dives into how “big men” operate across different eras and cultures.
45:00 – End | Looking Ahead: Workshops & Collaboration
Workshop invitation: Sam describes the next Summer of Protocols workshop (“Klongs & Subaks”) and how it continues exploring decentralized models drawn from Southeast Asian waterways and governance.
Final thoughts & contact: We wrap up by noting how important these dialogues are for anyone curious about alternative pathways in tech, policy, and cultural imagination.
If you’re intrigued by how power, decentralized tech, and local culture all intersect in Southeast Asia, be sure to check out my full chat with Sam Chua.
Ready to dive deeper? Explore more of Sam’s work at samuelchua.com. If you want to connect these ideas with practical discussions and hands-on workshops, consider applying for a slot at the Bangkok event at seapunk.asia/ksw (I hope to see you there!) And for more on the world of “protocols,” head over to the
newsletter.
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